WTF?! Ken Wilber @ Orkut?!

Apparently, Ken's people are putting him up – as an icon only – in multiple social networking venues. I think this is a mistake. If Ken wants, for example, to be part of Zaadz, then *he* should be part of Zaadz, not one of his minions writing in his stead. As is, it is kind of disservice to Zaadz, and, I believe, to Ken.

Um, not to sound frumpy or anything, but NFW. Ken wants to hold everyone else to a higher standard; I think he should be held to a reasonable standard as well. Either he’s here, or he’s not. No special treatment on Zaadz for bald world class genuises.

Well, that’s not true. Ken is at the heart of a very, very ambitious schedule of expansion of the ideas, and now the practices, of Ken’s worldview.

Ken is a genius, he really is. But 5 years ago – before I interviewed him for Enlightenment.Com – he was a media virgin. Period. Nowhere could you hear him live.

Now he is, as you say, everywhere, and expanding quickly. Who knows if there will be enough gravitas in the universe to prevent an eternal expansion.

The point is, Ken is still doing a good job, although I suspect he can’t keep expanding at this rate forever. His expansion here into Zaadz in this way is neither in his best interests, nor an honoring of people like … you … and me … and others who take Zaadz seriously. If Ken himself isn’t planning on hangin’, then his icon icon should be out of there.

That’s how I strongly feel. Lines should be drawn, and while it’s not really a big deal, and Ken will do WTF he wants, he’s not beyond receiving valid criticism and making course corrections.

– Jordan

I've been lurking in on these conversations about KW at Zaadz (but not really) for awhile (since March?), but now I have something to say! I agree that either he's here or he's not. And I believe that with all those minions there is no way he ain't got no time. You telling me he doesn't have 10 minutes a day to string together a few words of wisdom that his peeps would then upload to all of his blogs on all of the communities where he is just otherwise taking up space?

I couldn't believe it when just a while ago I went to his blank page [Ken loves: reading and writing.  Hahahahaha! But not on Zaadz, right?] and noticed that since he signed on at the beginning of May he's had 1111 views. And there's damn near nothing to view!

Not that you have to blog when you join Zaadz. But isn't it understood that you're here to help “change the world.” How does posting a minimal profile with a few links away from Zaadz, and nothing else, doing that?

Speaking of “social networking meatshops”,  I was going to say:

It's the same way I feel about people who join Zaadz just to sell their workshop or something. They invite friends and then they send them all notices to their workshops. They never comment on anyone else's blog, if they join a pod it's to post their flyer text. I don't mean to be harsh, but it's starting to get on my nerves. I'm now scrutinizing profiles before I accept a potential friend's invite. 

I'm sure what they are offering is of value, if you're in the market for it, but I really am hoping that when Zaadz gets the business directory we've been discussing for a while, maybe the “front” profiles will disappear and that sort of thing will reside in the directory, where we can search for what we're looking for when we're looking, and the rest of the time we can continue on our merry Zaadz way. 

Sorry to rant, but this issue was seriously “harshing my mellow” today!

… but I decided to delete that part from the last post! 

You got it. A bit feisty today! I'm sure I'll be my ol' self again next time.

LOL: “a single portal to rule them all” – that’s really funny, C4

as for forwarding this, the thing is, we don’t want to be in the business of monitoring people on Zaadz for “enough” contribution so that they can stay here

what I’m suggesting, instead, is that we forward this to Ken, through whatever channels we have, and rely on his integrity to have him remove himself from Zaadz if he is only going to remain a mere icon here

on the other hand, booting his sorry ass would also be pretty cool ;-)

on the other hand, booting his sorry ass would also be pretty cool ;-)

 AHAHAHAHAHAHA!  I don't agree with that, necessarily, but man that is FUNNY!

look, ken is a big advocate of not offering people what he terms “Idiot compassion”

perhaps none of us are world-class genuises (although I’m not completely willing to give up that point yet), but we do recognize, collectively, when something is “off” on somebody’s developmental line, and that’s what this feels like for me, vis-a-vis Ken, maybe because i personally know him a little bit

and so, my way of not offering him “idiot compassion” would be to be honest with him and tell him that this is a “wrongness,” to quote Valentine Michael Smith…

i told that to the person who contacted me back when i wrote to him, but i doubt very much that they forwarded it up the chain of command, so i’m gonna hold open the possibility that Ken doesn’t really know what’s going on around this, and that he would, in fact, delete his iconic presence (who wants to be a mere icon?) from Zaadz

thanks for the clarity about “powers that be,” C4

you go ahead and do that, and if that doesn’t work, I’ll write him a “Bad Conscience” email … I don’t know if I can still get through to him, although I once could…

so, are you saying that a “crowd” of us – in this case, 3 of us on this particular thread – have agreed that it would be better to either have the real thing or no-Ken-thing at all?

I just think it delutes the power of Zaadz to appear to be here, but not be. On the other hand, I agree that there should not be a monitoring of how much a person contributes. That’s nuts. People have ebbs and flows in their lives and might have to take a break. It doesn’t mean there’s not the possibility that they’ll contribute later. However, in the case of somebody who just by appearing to be here gets over a thousand hits just cause everyone’s all high on him being here (and for NO other reason), I think that person is only a distraction from what we could otherwise be discussing.

No, I don’t think he should be booted, unless he is doing something that someone else was booted for. IOW, I’m thinking about when Zaadz had us all take the pledge, and some folks chose not to and left. Would Zaadz now boot someone for coming here only to sell something? (I don’t think that was in the pledge.) But he might rethink why he’s here and see if it mixes with the Zaadz mission statement.

Diane, I agree with everything you say.

But I don’t remember taking a pledge!

I like this definition of what makes a crowd smart - a LOT. When you read it, you see why a ” virtual” crowd is even better. Now that's decentralization! And the people in the crowd need to be independent, so that they pay attention mostly to their own information, and not worrying about what everyone around them thinks. What better way to be independent and working from only what you know, than to be bi-coastal! Uber-cool.

Mark my words, KW will be promoting Zaadz very soon on IN.  That's my prediction.  Who wants to take bets?  Supposing I am correct, he's doing us a favor.  And he's doing quite the opposite of what some do who just come here and hound everyone about their personal site.  To my knowledge, he hasn't mass e-mailed anyone.  I believe he will do the opposite, and get the masses to check out Zaadz.  

So, let's show KW our compassion and instead of hounding him offer him OUR support.  The guy is doing tons of amazing stuff while having an auto-immune disorder!  Can't we send him our Love instead of our disdain for petty things?

I'm sorry if I sound a little bitter here, but speaking from the perspective of having a rather rare and life-altering disease, lay off the poor guy!  He will help Zaadz in his way.  He hasn't ordered any one of us to meditate, even though that's his thing.  He just speaks highly of it.  Can we speak highly of Zaadz participation without attacking Ken and let him reciprocate in the way he sees best?

My two bodhicentsvas,
~Matthew

You won't bet against me?  You're just worried that you might be right that I'm ALWAYS right, aren't you?

Matthew,

I respect Ken, and I respect you, but in this case, I must respectifully disagree with you.

Look, there’s no doubt that Ken has contributed a hell of a lot to the world. I’ve been reading him since 1981, and he has blown my mind on multiple occasions. He has put together so much in a framework that is so accessible to so many, that calling him an “avatar of the mind” is really not an exaggeration.

However … I really do feel that it is bad “energetic ethics” for someone to present themselves as being here, and then not really be here. It’s a kind of bait-and-switch, really. And the fact that he is a celebrity, and that he has REDD, and that he has helped bring many people into pathways and thoughtways that they never would have otherwise encountered doesn’t excuse what I believe is this lack of ethical grace.

Whether Ken sends thousands of people to Zaadz is beyond the point. He can do that without *pretending* that he is a participating member here. If he has some intention of occasionally participating, that’s one thing, but if he knows he’s not going to, and really, his image and icon are a kind of energetic placeholder just because he’s “supposed” to be anywhere, then do you really feel he belongs here?

Again, you say “let him reciprocate in the way *he* sees best.” But the point is, having a false persence here is not reciprocation. Ken is one of the truly great minds and spirits of our age, and I would love to have him here, but if he is not here, he is not here, and the fact that he’s bald, has REDD, may send people here, and on and on, doesn’t change that, IMHO.

But like I said, you're the one who said I'm always right!  I don't even agree with that.  I agree with your new statement that I'm only [usually] right,

My last comment was directed toward ~C.  

Jordan, I do disagree (also respectfully) with you.  I think it's unfair to Ken for him to be criticised like this, especially without him in the conversation.  He has made no statement as to his intentions here.  What he has put on his profile is all we have.  He likes reading and writing, and he has a few websites.  If that is all he wants to share on Zaadz at this point, that's his perogative.  I've seen less on others' profiles and no one else has received a single complaint, much less an entire thread devoted to complaining about it.  And although ~C was being somewhat humorous with the guru yoga comment, there is truth to that to.  I'd prefer Ken “be” here than not.

I think I'm up to 4 bodhicentsvas,
~Matthew

I do see your point, but I think we’ll have to agree to disagree. Ken is a big fish, and so he’s got to know that any pond he puts himself in is gonna be affected by his ripples. As to it being unfair to criticize him without his being here … well, that’s just the point, isn’t it? I mean, we wouldn’t be having this whole discussion if he were really here.

But I’m willing to drop it, and, as you say, wait and see. It’s like the fable of the farmer with the son who breaks his leg … is that good news or bad news? Things are not always so clear up front. The fact that I’m kind of ethically offended may very well be mostly my stuff. Wouldn’t be the first time…

D-oh! Look what happens when I go to bed before 1 a.m.! 

Matthew, I can see where you're coming from. This thread doesn't sound very loving, does it? But I just want to be sure that it's clear that I wasn't attacking KW personally. I was taking the situation more in the abstract. As ~C said,we covered a lot of ground here, and KW was just a jumping off point. My rant about people coming here just to sell stuff did NOT apply to KW. I am not a member of his icon's friends group, so I don't know if he's been doing mass e-mailings. Probably not, or you would know. Ranting about “social networking meatshops” was totally an aside.

I do think that KW's page here serves the purpose of directing Zaadzsters to his links. There are plenty of Zaadzsters who really haven't heard of him. It would be fun to do a poll and see how many folks on Zaadz only heard of Ken once they were here, and how many came here because of the connection between Zaadz & KW. 

It would also be good if someone started a pod. Sort of a KW101 for people with questions about his philosophy. Folks could talk about what aspect they found the most accessible, etc. Some of his concepts are not easy to follow, especially if you can't find the “beginning.” I'm not qualified to cultivate such a pod, but maybe someone else here is up to it?

I think it's a good idea.  Perhaps we should talk to Jay Michael about that?

This is not really the Most Comical Ambazzidor Goodsoul, this is just a wake-up call.

Dissociative personifications lack integrity, are hype, and bend the truth into a mobias strip of disingenuous appeal to the fluffy goodwill of Zaadz.

That said, let me quote from Goodsoul's blog from the entry entitled, “We Never Worry About Now” (I'm sure he won't mind),

“If you can’t fix it, don’t worry about it. If you can fix it, don’t worry about it.”

 In fact, if Ken's not really here (which all 1,297 viewers probably figured out), you can't throw him off of Zaadz: you can't thow off somebody who isn't really on. You can throw your self off (that is, if you are really here) if you think that would help.

On the other hand, iIf Ken is is really here, then most of Zaadz doesn't know it (I think C-4 and Matthew are holding out) , and that would likely be applauded, since he is not using this community as fodder for his self-promotion.

Either way, nothing's broken, which of course correlates completely with when something is broken. So we will add, “If it's not broken, don't worry about it.” 

So, C-4, will you send me an invite to Orkut? It seems only the invited gain entrance. Since I am only posing as the famous and widely admired Most Comical Ambazzador Goodsoul, send it to goodsoul.us@gmail.com" title="Jay Michael posing as Ambazzador Goodsoul">Jay Michael.

Blezzings to all!

jay

After reading this entire thread I deem it interesting. Very interesting. Seems to me like the people with ~ in front of their name have it right.

Matthew you are usually almost always only right, ever.

Something smells like burning toast and dead skin. I must attend.

~ perhaps it is beyond my ken … ~